Curse

Guildmaster Cain · Nov 24, 2007, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Added some more detailed stuff for areas, will continue on this later.
Added probably the most powerfull Ursan build, scroll back to Dervish suggestion.

@Slotter, cleared FoW in 2.15 mins with 1 leaver at almost the start and we took some breaks in the process. FoW seems to be a bit shorter. Still need to get myself a good UW group and pray the NPC's dont mess up this time... :S

tmr819 · Nov 24, 2007, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Thanks for the guide, Cain.

It's well written and has good suggestions for maximizing your potential that I know I hadn't thought of.

(I also appreciate those N/Rt Hero builds you posted.)

Lumenil · Nov 26, 2007, 02:51 AM // 02:51

I hate how some pve elitists tend always to exclude some classes from everything in favor of the "holy" fours: warrior, ele, necro and monk.
This is the thread where ursanway first made its appearance in the elite mission scenes: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10206637

As you can see from the screenshot in the OP, that team build consists of 4 random ursan chars, 2 ritualists, 1 paragon and, the horror, only 1 monk.. Those are heroes, but what those heroes do, can be done even better by human ritualists and paragons, who can even use good pve-only skills like TNtF. I thougt that finally primary ritualists and paragons would have been able to find their support role recognised by the elite pve community and by PUGS. My hopes were soon destroyed. After a month, DOA districts were full of ursans PUGS looking for monks, monks and monks. Ritualist? meh.. Paragon? what is a paragon?

And, now, this thread, that is supposed to be the ultimate guide to ursanway.
The support paragon is gone of course, what is a paragon btw?
The primary ritualist is back to his old role of spirit spammer, yay!
Monks are back, cuz monks are monks, they heal and stuff.
But we need to find a place for necros too.. everybody has a necro! so we take N/Rt, even if they were nerfed, who cares? monks monks monks, necros necros necros.. this is the pve mantra, nothing else matters.

Two April Mornings · Nov 26, 2007, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Earth X

Okay, idiot comments aside. Good guide, pretty much covers everything you need to know...

I still don't know why you would need a guide for UB, but whatever floats your boat I guess.

QFT.

Guide to hitting 1-2-3.

Guildmaster Cain · Nov 26, 2007, 10:38 AM // 10:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumenil

I hate how some pve elitists tend always to exclude some classes from everything in favor of the "holy" fours: warrior, ele, necro and monk.
This is the thread where ursanway first made its appearance in the elite mission scenes: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10206637

As you can see from the screenshot in the OP, that team build consists of 4 random ursan chars, 2 ritualists, 1 paragon and, the horror, only 1 monk.. Those are heroes, but what those heroes do, can be done even better by human ritualists and paragons, who can even use good pve-only skills like TNtF. I thougt that finally primary ritualists and paragons would have been able to find their support role recognised by the elite pve community and by PUGS. My hopes were soon destroyed. After a month, DOA districts were full of ursans PUGS looking for monks, monks and monks. Ritualist? meh.. Paragon? what is a paragon?

And, now, this thread, that is supposed to be the ultimate guide to ursanway.
The support paragon is gone of course, what is a paragon btw?
The primary ritualist is back to his old role of spirit spammer, yay!
Monks are back, cuz monks are monks, they heal and stuff.
But we need to find a place for necros too.. everybody has a necro! so we take N/Rt, even if they were nerfed, who cares? monks monks monks, necros necros necros.. this is the pve mantra, nothing else matters.

Instead of complaining, you could give me the builds for them and I can add them to the guide.

I know that Rit and Paragon are good in Ursanwaying, just havent made and tested the right builds yet. I did Foundry once with a human Spirit Spammer.

Savio · Nov 29, 2007, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain

Added probably the most powerfull Ursan build, scroll back to Dervish suggestion.

Dervishes are on the same level as warriors, assuming both are autoattacking between Ursan skills (or neither are autoattacking, but why wouldn't they?)

Also, Balthazar is the least useful on an Ursan; +20 AL and Holy damage isn't exactly critical to what an Ursan does.

Quote:

I know that Rit and Paragon are good in Ursanwaying, just havent made and tested the right builds yet. I did Foundry once with a human Spirit Spammer.

You run them in their normal overpowered PvE state, and they contribute more to the team than an Ursan.

neo the tyrant · Nov 29, 2007, 07:10 PM // 19:10

I cant wait to try this out

Great guide =)

payne · Nov 29, 2007, 07:15 PM // 19:15

now were is the "1" key on my keyboard? and a finger support!¬

nice guide but I shall never use UB

lennymon · Nov 29, 2007, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Just an fyi on the serpent's quickness/dwarven stability thing while in ursan. The stance is less about trapping or your other skills as it's about Ursan... while dwarven stability will end upon entering ursan form, the SQ will not. With 16 WS and a relatively high dwarven rank you'll have a minute plus of SQ and it does in fact effect *all ursan skills*.
We've cleared urgoz and the deep in under 45 minutes each, UW in 2:05, fow in 1:15, full quad in DoA in 3:05, mallyx in 15 minutes... We even have great fun vanquishing harder areas together this way.

mtm · Dec 03, 2007, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Thanks on the guide, you took the time and effort to put everything you know - highly appreciated.

In every game people will always be complaining about how ridiculously easy/hard X quest/area/dungeon is, how the game is full of noobs, how everyone only plays Y character class.

DoA is taking one step further what started with the previous Elite Missions: you need either a very strong group of friends and practically to dedicate yourself doing only that for a while, become a "regular" and know the other regulars so that you can easily form/get in groups.

I don't see what's wrong is making something easier - instead of spending all my time in DoA for one month to get to know all the builds & tricks or hope that i'll have at least 4-5 more people in my friends list that will decide to do the same.

I appreciate that people feel proud of themselves if they manage to solve the puzzle of beating a difficult area, there's nothing wrong though with making it easier, less time consuming and accessible to more people. Especially speeding things up: I like a lot playing, but i also like having a beer with my friends - if i can do both on the same night then yes, i'll go Ursan! I don't see the point of taking more time for something that could be done faster, unless you wanna play around with something specific - for example bring one of each profession, Paragons only, no elite skills allowed etc

About calling it "the Ultimate guide" and using only monks or whatnot: OP took the time and effort to put together what they found out by playing - there's no such thing as "best build", it's what works better for you. If anyone is worried about Paragons being left out then please be constructive and give us your alternatives - i'd love to use my Paragon heroes instead of N/Rt! And you'll be surprised to find out that people actually do try the builds and will give you feedback - that's why spreading the word is important.

Solas · Dec 03, 2007, 08:13 PM // 20:13

ty,nice build, did my first ursan today,was fun enough

even tho im ele i like ursan way becausei can interact with random people and talk, share a close death (happened) and fight back.

after reading this thread i thought i'd give it ago

ty

at least this is class prejudiced, whats the differance between this and just using a trapper build? SF team or dueling, 55-ing is jsut 12-3 more or less, this is way more fun imo, at elast for now:P, but it is helpful

hurric · Dec 03, 2007, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Ritualist and paragons have always been my favourite professions before ursan. I've done DOA with ursans and I can't stress enough how important it is to bring a SoP paragon especially to foundry! it's a huge huge energy saver for monks and it removes party conditions which greatly helps the team and I still believe people are underestimating paragons.
We did foundry with 2 monks, myself (as SoP) paragon which has party wide healing/condition removal very frequently. Trick is to have at least 2 adrenaline shouts for e-management and makes the life of everyone much easier. I used the same build in other areas too but I sometimes switch to SoR.

As for Ritualists, Shelter is a huge plus when doing city and other areas.
Recovery is great for reducing the recharge of conditions in foundry.
good guide.

snikerz · Dec 05, 2007, 09:06 AM // 09:06

nice guide, and great effort.
most of the stuff you have written i already know, so I thought you might want to add a few more tips i have.

Weapon:
A axe with a heavy mod to lengthen weakness when you activate Ursan Roar.

Warrior:
Stonefist insignia: 1 more second of KD

Paragon:
Leadership + Ursan Roar seems to be bugged, sometimes it will give NO energy back, see wiki for more details.

Ranger:
Taking a pet is more trouble than its worth, heroes will heal the pet taking up precious time to heal you, as well as it doesnt make a corpse to feed the MM

Psychology · Dec 05, 2007, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Any tips for using this in Deep or Urgoz, i never done any of the 2 before and wanted to give them both a go with ursan.

Guildmaster Cain · Dec 06, 2007, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Well it should be noted that this guide is still a work in progress. I called it the complete guide already, since I cant change the title afterwards.

Subjects that still will be adressed in the future:
-how to raise Norn points fast
-how to 'press C 1 2 3' proper
-how to clear [insert elite area(Deep,Warren,etc]
-suggested builds for Rit and Para support
-some minor changes to old text

Somehow I have a problem trying to edit my current post, when I do, it gets all cleared out, so I have to salvage the remains of the post what I can and restore it offline. Unless some mod can do something about it.
Maybe there is just plain too much text in one post for the forum to handle it.

@Psychology, I recommend Warren, since it is much easier and also easier to find a group. But it will still be hard finding enough people, so I suggest trying to set it up with your guild/alliance.

@Snikerz, It might be bugged since there are too much times the skill is overlapping eachother's roar. Same as why Refrain is not the best in a full Ursan team, since the Roar never ends, but gets reapplied. So the Refrain recast never gets triggered.

@mtm and rest, ty for the support.

Peter Panic · Dec 21, 2007, 03:52 PM // 15:52

UB honestly isnt as good or as fun as a balanced team. from reading ur times, ive done most of the things u mentioned faster with a balanced team than u have with UB. and i guarentee i had more fun than c, 1, 2, 3, c, 1, etc. UB is just the alrenative for ppl who dont know how or want to use a balanced team. so all u ppl who are like ZOMG UB GROUPS FTW!!11!1!one! need to stop using UB and learn to play the game

IMO

Saphon the Patient · Dec 28, 2007, 11:02 PM // 23:02

I think that another possibility has been somewhat overlooked.

Whilst a 5 ursan, 3 monk team may be quite adequate, has anyone considered the possibility of swapping the 5th ursan for an Rt/Me or and Me/Rt with Splinter Weapon, Sympathetic Visage and Ineptitude/Epidemic ?

Let's do some calculations, based on teams of rank 10 Ursans (Norn title track rank 10), and groups of enemies of size at least 4.

Firstly consider the damage output of 5 Ursans, each using the standard Ursan attack skill, presuming also that these strikes are made under the influence of the Ursan Roar shout skill.

5 Ursans dealing 180 dmg per attack four times.
Total damage output = 20x180 = 3600dmg

Now consider the potential damage output of 4 Ursans, each using the standard Ursan attack skill under the same hypotheses, whilst under the effects of Splinter Weapon (cast at lvl 12, for the sake of argument).

4 Ursans dealing 180 dmg per attack four time.
Total damage output from attacks = 16x180 = 2880dmg
4 x Splinter Weapon Effects affecting 3 targets each strike for each of 4 Ursans.
Total damage output from Splinter Weapon = 16x3x41 = 1968 dmg

Total potential damage against groups of size 4+ using Splinter Weapon = 4848 dmg.

The build involving an Rt/Me ( or Me/Rt ) would therefore have the potential to do up to 1248 more damage over a set of 4 hits from each Ursan than the team with 5 Ursans. This would be increased with an Rt primary, since the damage output from Splinter weapon would be increased per hit and the effect would last for 5 hits per casting rather than 4 at 16 channeling, doing 53dmg per target rather than 41.

Since this has the potential to increase the damage so significantly through the use of arcane echo with splinter weapon to allow the caster to chain the splinter weapon spells on all 4 Ursans over an extended period of time, this should surely merit consideration.

Moreover, the Mesmer skills Ineptitude and SV/AV are useful in their own right, potentially reducing the monk's healing workload against large groups including high damage spellcasters, and blinding anything that strays onto the monks to give them improved survival chances, or time to flee.

Energy is an issue at first glance, but my Mesmer character, on which I run a build based around these skills, has 66 energy at +4 regen and has no difficulty maintaining the chain of Splinter Weapons. I include energy drain and energy tap in my build in case of emergencies, but have not had to use them yet.

This type of group has been tested and worked fine with a team in the City of Torc'qua despite one of the 4 ursans leaving.

I suggested this to one pug in the DoA, but was laughed at, even after explaining the calculations. I hope that it will attract more serious and constructive criticism and debate here.

Ekelon · Dec 28, 2007, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saphon the Patient

I think that another possibility has been somewhat overlooked.

Whilst a 5 ursan, 3 monk team may be quite adequate, has anyone considered the possibility of swapping the 5th ursan for an Rt/Me or and Me/Rt with Splinter Weapon, Sympathetic Visage and Ineptitude/Epidemic ?

Let's do some calculations, based on teams of rank 10 Ursans (Norn title track rank 10), and groups of enemies of size at least 4.

Firstly consider the damage output of 5 Ursans, each using the standard Ursan attack skill, presuming also that these strikes are made under the influence of the Ursan Roar shout skill.

5 Ursans dealing 180 dmg per attack four times.
Total damage output = 20x180 = 3600dmg

Now consider the potential damage output of 4 Ursans, each using the standard Ursan attack skill under the same hypotheses, whilst under the effects of Splinter Weapon (cast at lvl 12, for the sake of argument).

4 Ursans dealing 180 dmg per attack four time.
Total damage output from attacks = 16x180 = 2880dmg
4 x Splinter Weapon Effects affecting 3 targets each strike for each of 4 Ursans.
Total damage output from Splinter Weapon = 16x3x41 = 1968 dmg

Total potential damage against groups of size 4+ using Splinter Weapon = 4848 dmg.

The build involving an Rt/Me ( or Me/Rt ) would therefore have the potential to do up to 1248 more damage over a set of 4 hits from each Ursan than the team with 5 Ursans. This would be increased with an Rt primary, since the damage output from Splinter weapon would be increased per hit and the effect would last for 5 hits per casting rather than 4 at 16 channeling, doing 53dmg per target rather than 41.

Since this has the potential to increase the damage so significantly through the use of arcane echo with splinter weapon to allow the caster to chain the splinter weapon spells on all 4 Ursans over an extended period of time, this should surely merit consideration.

Moreover, the Mesmer skills Ineptitude and SV/AV are useful in their own right, potentially reducing the monk's healing workload against large groups including high damage spellcasters, and blinding anything that strays onto the monks to give them improved survival chances, or time to flee.

Energy is an issue at first glance, but my Mesmer character, on which I run a build based around these skills, has 66 energy at +4 regen and has no difficulty maintaining the chain of Splinter Weapons. I include energy drain and energy tap in my build in case of emergencies, but have not had to use them yet.

This type of group has been tested and worked fine with a team in the City of Torc'qua despite one of the 4 ursans leaving.

I suggested this to one pug in the DoA, but was laughed at, even after explaining the calculations. I hope that it will attract more serious and constructive criticism and debate here.

You forget that splinter weapon can only be cast once every 8 seconds, thus you cannot keep it on 4 people at once. Also, ursan strike is like Vamp Touch, it won't actually trigger splinter.

Dante the Warlord · Dec 28, 2007, 11:14 PM // 23:14

K well, i actually have a question... what Norn rank would you say would be great for fighting. I just capped this skill, but realize i have only norn rank 2 O_o, the lowest of all the titles i got. Will i get booted from a group right away? Or will i be able to do decent damage?

Ekelon · Dec 28, 2007, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord

K well, i actually have a question... what Norn rank would you say would be great for fighting. I just capped this skill, but realize i have only norn rank 2 O_o, the lowest of all the titles i got. Will i get booted from a group right away? Or will i be able to do decent damage?

I would recommend you getting to r5. That's the req. to buy the armor. Most groups ask for r5/r6+ i belive